Question: IFR departure ENAL, transition to VFR for arrival at ENOP.

[Martin Jensen]

FTX NOR and the vfr flying to those small strips has challenged my knowledge quite a bit - which is really awesome, but now I need a little input...

 

How would one go about this the correct way?

 

To specify the situation ;

You want to conduct a passenger charterflight in a IFR certified C208b from ENAL to ENOP. IMC conditions at ENAL and for some part of the route. VMC conditions at ENOP.

 

1. How would one file the route in the FP? Tried to Google this, but I couldn't find a correct format to specify the transition to vfr...? Can the transition point be a quadrant/range from an NDB?

2. Say that part of the descent into ENOP was in IMC, where could one find information about MSA in the area? I couldn't find any charts or info on ENOP regarding this. In a fully functional c208b with a 430gns one would have TAWS available, but would that legally be enough? Isn't there any charts with Enroute Safe Altitudes or similar?

 

Looking foreward to all of your suggestions...

 

Martin

 

[Eivind Tollerød Fosse]

1. How would one file the route in the FP? Tried to Google this, but I couldn't find a correct format to specify the transition to vfr...? Can the transition point be a quadrant/range from an NDB?

2. Say that part of the descent into ENOP was in IMC, where could one find information about MSA in the area? I couldn't find any charts or info on ENOP regarding this. In a fully functional c208b with a 430gns one would have TAWS available, but would that legally be enough? Isn't there any charts with Enroute Safe Altitudes or similar?

 

 

1 - You can use the ICAO FPL form to see how to file a Y (IFR departure, VFR arrival) flight plan.

 

http://files.eurofpl.eu/originalfpl/pdfs/EuroFPL-ICAO_Flightplan_Form_Basics-latest.pdf

 

As far as I can remember VATSIM only supports IFR and VFR in item 8 when filing a FPL (in a real FPL you'd enter Y for IFR-VFR or Z for VFR-IFR). So I'd choose an IFR FPL. You can still indicate to ATC the point you want to change from IFR to VFR in the route part of your FPL. The correct format is to indicate the fix you want to change from IFR to VFR and enter VFR behind. For example

OSMUM VFR

As you suggest you can indicate this by a regular fix, VOR or NDB, a coordinate (very useful for ATC online as this will show your route point on the radar screen) or a Radial and distance from a known VOR/NDB:

RBU281045 VFR

 

2 – Your TAWS will not be enough to start descend. You should use MORA altitudes until you are within 25 NM from destination and can use the MSA altitudes. If you have Jeppesen Enroute charts, you can find the MORA altitudes as numbers within a square, for example 98 where the 8 is a little smaller than the 9. This indicates 9800 ft. Unfortunately I do not know where you can find MORA altitudes without Jeppesen. If you do not have Jeppesen I’d go for AIP Norway enroute charts instead and find the lowest controlled airspace altitude over your destination – FL135 for the ENOP area, or FL95 if you use the fix OSMUM as transfer point to VFR.

 

https://www.ippc.no/norway_aip/current/aip/EN_ENR_6_2-3_en.pdf

 

[Martin Jensen]

Eivind - ALL I wanted to know - brief and concise - wonderfull - thank you!

[Martin Jensen]

1. How would one file the route in the FP? Tried to Google this, but I couldn't find a correct format to specify the transition to vfr...? Can the transition point be a quadrant/range from an NDB?

2. Say that part of the descent into ENOP was in IMC, where could one find information about MSA in the area? I couldn't find any charts or info on ENOP regarding this. In a fully functional c208b with a 430gns one would have TAWS available, but would that legally be enough? Isn't there any charts with Enroute Safe Altitudes or similar?

 

 

1 - You can use the ICAO FPL form to see how to file a Y (IFR departure, VFR arrival) flight plan.

 

http://files.eurofpl.eu/originalfpl/pdfs/EuroFPL-ICAO_Flightplan_Form_Basics-latest.pdf

 

As far as I can remember VATSIM only supports IFR and VFR in item 8 when filing a FPL (in a real FPL you'd enter Y for IFR-VFR or Z for VFR-IFR). So I'd choose an IFR FPL. You can still indicate to ATC the point you want to change from IFR to VFR in the route part of your FPL. The correct format is to indicate the fix you want to change from IFR to VFR and enter VFR behind. For example

OSMUM VFR

As you suggest you can indicate this by a regular fix, VOR or NDB, a coordinate (very useful for ATC online as this will show your route point on the radar screen) or a Radial and distance from a known VOR/NDB:

RBU281045 VFR

 

2 – Your TAWS will not be enough to start descend. You should use MORA altitudes until you are within 25 NM from destination and can use the MSA altitudes. If you have Jeppesen Enroute charts, you can find the MORA altitudes as numbers within a square, for example 98 where the 8 is a little smaller than the 9. This indicates 9800 ft. Unfortunately I do not know where you can find MORA altitudes without Jeppesen. If you do not have Jeppesen I’d go for AIP Norway enroute charts instead and find the lowest controlled airspace altitude over your destination – FL135 for the ENOP area, or FL95 if you use the fix OSMUM as transfer point to VFR.

 

https://www.ippc.no/norway_aip/current/aip/EN_ENR_6_2-3_en.pdf

One question though. As I was unable to find any charts for ENOP, how can I determine the MSA?

 

And also: the enroute chart states Lower fl095 (just besides OSMUM) , isn't that just the lower limit of the controlled area? Is it also a sort of MSA?

 

THX AGAIN

 

martin

 

[Magnus F. Meese]

The VFR World-maps at skyvector.com has MORAs. It also comes with wind charts, SIGMET and NOTAM-layers, weather stations, airway maps, etc. The VFR map outside the US is very sparse, but better than nothing!

[Martin Jensen]

Wow - cool, will check that out!

[Martin Jensen]

It does have MORA - cool!

[Eivind Tollerød Fosse]

One question though. As I was unable to find any charts for ENOP, how can I determine the MSA?

 

And also: the enroute chart states Lower fl095 (just besides OSMUM) , isn't that just the lower limit of the controlled area? Is it also a sort of MSA?

 

MSA is published on instrument approach procedure charts made by the autority that designed the procedure, so you can't "determine" it yourself. If there are no MSA, you should use the MORA to stay safe above ground until you visually can see it.

 

Yes, FL95 on that chart is as I said limit of the lower controlled airspace. It is never used as MORA in real life, but it was a suggestion for you to use if you had no other MORA sources.

 

As far as I know, except for TMA and CTRs, the lower limit of controlled airspace is safe and a MORA or MSA is usually lower. It would be strange if a mountain penetrated the limit of lower controlled airspace. But as mentioned - I'm not 100% sure. Still - for flight simulator, you should be fairly safe at FL95 in that area.

[Martin Jensen]

One question though. As I was unable to find any charts for ENOP, how can I determine the MSA?

 

And also: the enroute chart states Lower fl095 (just besides OSMUM) , isn't that just the lower limit of the controlled area? Is it also a sort of MSA?

 

MSA is published on instrument approach procedure charts made by the autority that designed the procedure, so you can't "determine" it yourself. If there are no MSA, you should use the MORA to stay safe above ground until you visually can see it.

 

Yes, FL95 on that chart is as I said limit of the lower controlled airspace. It is never used as MORA in real life, but it was a suggestion for you to use if you had no other MORA sources.

 

As far as I know, except for TMA and CTRs, the lower limit of controlled airspace is safe and a MORA or MSA is usually lower. It would be strange if a mountain penetrated the limit of lower controlled airspace. But as mentioned - I'm not 100% sure. Still - for flight simulator, you should be fairly safe at FL95 in that area.

Ok that makes sense - thx again Eivind!

[Otto A. Haaland]

Hi :-)

Regarding ENOP information.

www.mfl.no has some information about ENOP.

 

Both text information in english(Operations Manual), and some charts(Kartskisser)

[Martin Jensen]

Hi :-)

Regarding ENOP information.

www.mfl.no has some information about ENOP.

 

Both text information in english(Operations Manual), and some charts(Kartskisser)

Sweet - tak!