Jump to content
Svein-Frode

Ny flysim fra Dovetail!

Recommended Posts

hmmm, vet ikke helt hvordan jeg skal stille meg til denne, 64bit og dx11 er greit nokk, men fikk en følelse av MS flight her...

 

Skal ikke gå til noen konklusjon før det er her, men dovetail har en tendens til og pakke gamle ting i ny inpakning, men jeg kan også ta totalt feil, noe jeg håper at jeg gjør. tiden vil vise :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hvis de ikke får med seg noen kvalitets produsenter av addons så tror jeg ikke de klarer å etablere seg.

Det er jo først nå X-plane begynner så smått og hevde seg, og det er hovedsaklig fordi de store mainstream produsentene begynner å lage ting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeg synest dette ser lovende ut, og at Dovetail er på rett spor.  8)

 

There are currently no plans to include third party content in Flight School. That will really be a standalone experience focused on learning to fly.

Støtter denne ideen for om mulig å få flere til å prøve denne hobbyen.

 

DTG Flight Simulator is a different story, we will absolutely be looking to work with third party developers just like we have been doing with FSX: Steam Edition.

:P

 

Both Flight Simulator and Flight School are based on upgraded FSX technology only. We found this to be a better starting point that using Flight.

Bra!!! FSX er jo i sitt tiende år blitt ganske nedslitt. Vi trenger oppdatert FSX-teknologi.

We are in this for the long term and intend to support and expand upon DFS for years to come. We aren’t just going to make a new simulator – we intend to build a new simulation platform which grows with you, our players, over time.

Håper Dovetail lykkes med sitt flysimulatorprosjekt.

 

http://steamcommunity.com/app/314160/discussions/16/412446890550990408/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ingenting er bedre for hobbyen enn at nye platformer utvikles. X-Plane og Prepar3D er nisjeprodukter, og FSX i alle mulige varianter er en dinosaur som sjelden slår an hos de som har et minimum av forventninger til grafikk og ytelse i 2016.

 

Det aller viktigste for hobbyen slik jeg ser det er å lage en bedre SDK som kan involvere flere i bygging av addons. Ser man på de største spillsuksessene de siste årene så har mange av disse til felles at de appellerer til "legobyggeren" i oss alle. Ta f.eks. The Sims, Minecraft, Sim City osv.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both Flight Simulator and Flight School are based on upgraded FSX technology only. We found this to be a better starting point that using Flight.

Bra!!! FSX er jo i sitt tiende år blitt ganske nedslitt. Vi trenger oppdatert FSX-teknologi.

Men har vi ikke allerede dette i P3D?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both Flight Simulator and Flight School are based on upgraded FSX technology only. We found this to be a better starting point that using Flight.

Bra!!! FSX er jo i sitt tiende år blitt ganske nedslitt. Vi trenger oppdatert FSX-teknologi.

Men har vi ikke allerede dette i P3D?

 

Joda, men ikke 64 bit, og endringene kan være av en helt annen art enn det som er gjort av Lockheed Martin. Forhåpentligvis er det gjort store framskritt på grafikken i form av nye teksturer og autogen - her har det ikke skjedd noe i P3D. Etter 10 år med FSX og P3D så begynner store deler av verden å se ganske så ensformig ut...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Back when we, Dovetail Games, announced that we would be bringing FSX to Steam we also confirmed that we would be working on a brand new flight simulator. We are currently busy with the early stages of development for this new simulator under the codename Dovetail Games Flight Simulator (DFS).

Hei Fredrik. Om DFS (64 bit) virkelig blir "a brand new flight simulator", eller om den like godt kan kalles "FSX11", er foreløpig noe uklart. Hvis ikke DFS får en vesentlig bedre ytelse enn P3Dv3 - vil jeg kalle det en megaflopp.  :-X

 

Dovetail sier:

Flight Simulator are based on upgraded FSX: SE technology

Hva betyr "based on"? Er det samme kode, eller er det ny kode som gjør det samme?

 

Som John Venema (Orbx) påpeker er den "nye flysimulatoren"

based on the FSX engine (which I have praised ad infinitum as the best far horizon high poly 3D engine ever made) and are different beasts entirely.

Uansett vil nok bl.a. Orbx tilpasse sine produkter til denne "nye flysimulatoren" DFS (64 bit).

 

Så får vi vel mere kjøtt på beinet etter hvert. Og i april blir det flyskole.  :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Litt mere kjøtt på beinet fra John Venema (Orbx), som nok er godt informert om den kommende DFS:

 

- Flight School is what it is, no discussion is needed about it really, since we are not the target market for it. I wish DTG lots of success with it because it will bring new simmers into our community at long last.

 

- It is logical that Orbx, REX, A2A etc and some other developers who have already sold DLC for FSX:SE are going to be involved with DGFS.

 

- DTG have not announced an open SDK, and I doubt that they will, nor will there be a freeware community springing up around the sim.

 

- Backward compatibility is neither assured or announced by DTG nor desired by Orbx; we WANT it to be broken so we can start to exploit new technology, finally. It's been too long since we began hacking an old 2006 engine.

 

- You will likely have to purchase all your favorite addons again for DGFS; deal with it, it's going to cost developers a bunch of money to move them across.

 

- It will take quite some time for developers to port their content across, even with access to an early beta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Den dårligste nyheten synes å være at de videreutvikler FSX istedenfor Flight. Det kan ende med nok en variant av 10 år gammel grafikk med litt pynt her og der. Frykter samme autogen, land class osv.

 

Og bare for å ha det sagt. Ingen freeware intet kjøp!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For å gripe fatt i det siste du sier: Høres ikke bra ut hvis det ikke blir en "open SDK". Hvis det er sant - håper jeg at det er en nøye gjennomtenkt beslutning. For det vil begrense innovasjon.

 

Ellers kan det være ønskelig med en viss grad av kvalitetskontroll. Jeg har rikelig med erfaring gjennom årene med både dårlig freeware og dårlig payware som oppfører seg som virus og klødder til simulatoren.

 

Har inntrykk av at Dovetail Games har gjort grundig research - og jeg tror de har kommet fram til riktig konklusjon/strategi.

 

Vi får avvente mere informasjon.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Her er en grei oppsumering av "france89" (Avsim forum) - fra gårsagens nettmøte med Dovetail:

 

Quote

There will be two aircraft in DTG Flight School. The first is the Piper PA-18 Super Cub. We will be announcing the second one next month.

Flight School is all about your journey as a pilot. From your humble beginnings as a rookie through to an accomplished pilot. This is a very personal experience and we didn’t feel that multiplayer fitted into that concept.

 

DTG Flight School will be available for PC only.

 

Dovetail Games Flight Simulator will be a 64-bit simulator using DirectX 11 and take full advantage of modern GPU and CPU performance. The advantage of this updated technology is that we have been able to introduce a range of globally applied techniques such as dynamic range rendering (HDR), atmospheric light scattering and physically based rendering (PBR). This means that aircraft and the environment will have the potential to look better than they have ever done before.

The downside of all this new technology is that the code bases are quite different so add-ons from FSX will not just work “out of the box”.

Naturally we will provide developers with all the tools, documentation and support they need to create great new content for this new platform and will be working closely with them during that process.

 

We will not be updating the flight physics in DTG Flight School, however it is something we are exploring for DTG Flight Simulator. Realism is important to me and physics plays a large part in that .

 

The ATC in DTG Flight School will function similar to that in FSX: Steam Edition. Flight School is all about your journey as a pilot and the current ATC system does a good job of representing what is required for that experience. In the future however, I have great interest in looking at how the system represents ATC around the world.

 

DTG Flight School will not include sloped runways or AI that can use them but this is something we are exploring for the future.

 

(Regarding multimonitor support) We are currently running tests on support for this as well as other hardware. It is certainly my aim to do so if possiible.

 

DTG Flight Simulator will run on Windows 7 64 bit too.

 

(Are they working with real pilots?) Definitely - everyone from private pilots to commercial pilots. Not only that, but we have been working with former members of the ACES team as well!

 

We will not be bringing DTG Flight School to Xbox One or VR platforms.

 

(Regarding updated street/coast/lakes data) There aren't any definite improvements, however we are working on big plans regarding this that we can't talk about just yet. We look forward to sharing them with you!

 

The current screenshots are completely in game, but they reflect a particular time of day in-game. There will be a bigger variety of screenshots coming out in the next few weeks. Stay tuned!

 

No, DTG Flight School will not support VR.

 

I totally appreciate how important walk arounds are IRL, this is something I would like to see once we add a far greater level of simulation to the aircraft model.

 

(freeware content?) We recognise the passion that exists in the flight simulation community around enabling players to create user generated content. We will have more information to share on this as we get closer to the launch of Dovetail Games Flight Simulator.

 

(terrain/airport data updated?) This comes up a lot. I am aware that a lot of the data in the flight engine is quite old, and it would be great to update it. We are currently investigating what it would take to update this data sooner rather than later.

 

We aren't doing a BETA for DTG Flight School but we haven't ruled it out for DFS.

 

Over the past 2 years, we have made our intentions clear with respect to welcoming and working with developers, both big and small, on FSX: SE. We fully intend to continue those relationships and looking forward will be welcoming both existing and new developers to the Dovetail Games Flight Simulator platform.

 

The entire world will be available in both DTG Flight School and DFS.

 

(damage models?) We aren't doing anything special with this for DTG Flight School but I do want you to care about your aircraft, so its something we are considering for the future.

 

Both products will be 64 bit.

 

DTG Flight School does not have helicopters, however I am definitely looking at what can be done to improve the flight model for helicopters at some point in the future.

 

Flight School and Flight Simulator do share the same underlying technology. However, Flight Simulator is still in development and upon release will be a much bigger and more feature-rich experience than Flight School.

 

We are working on implementing achievements for both Steam and Win10 for DTG Flight School.

 

DTG Flight School will cover the first part of the journey including LAPL and PPL, and I hope to continue the experience in DFS.

 

Yes we have done some work to improve AI traffic in DTG Flight School.

 

The data in FSX is somewhat out of date, so we are trying to update as many sources and components as possible. I want it to reflect today's world as much as possible.

 

I personally love VR and this is something I think we can do great things with in the future. Watch this space!

 

(flight planning?) The school itself doesn't, however there is an all new flight planner in DTG Flight School which makes the process more accessible. This is something I intend to build on in the future.

 

DTG Flight School will not have a mission generator, however it contains a series of missions taking you up to PPL level along with free flight mode.

 

(shadows inside cockpit?) Yes- as a result of the new lighting engine. It certainly feels more real now.

 

We have completely overhauled the UI for DTG Flight School. It is an expression of our desire to reinvigorate the flight simulation genre and make it more accessible.

 

This not just a new sim but rather this is a new platform. It will take time for the infrastructure around it to slot into place. At the moment we are focused on building the best possible simulator we can. We want to get the fundamentals right, if we don't do that there will be nothing to develop for full stop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

..så det de sier er at de rett og slett ikke har forbedret en skit. Det er fortsatt fsx, men med mer tilgjengelig vas. Fortsatt vil vi slite med gammel teknologi, som gjør at ting som er moderne og bra laget idag, som vann og skyer, vil få selv den tøffeste pc til å knele..

 

Det er flott at de vil inkludere 3. Partsutviklere, men det eneste han sier i intervjuet er jo egentlig: vi har lagt til et lesson-system, men det er alt. Alt annet på lista er jo -ønsker- fra community som de -kanskje- får tid til å se på senere..

 

Sticking with my p3d..  : )

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tipper nok jeg har betalt for P3D v4.X før dette blir et eventyr man blir hekta på.

 

Freeware er selve kjernen i flysim for min del. Uten Norway Airports, Norske byggeklosser og Lennart sine teksturer i FS2004, så hadde jeg nok vært ferdig med denne hobbyen for 10 år siden. Nå har den fått en ny vår, mye takket være Andrew Thomsen. Blir man igjen tvunget til å leke i en default sim med "standard" flyplasser og autogen så er jeg overhode ikke interessert.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

..så det de sier er at de rett og slett ikke har forbedret en skit. Det er fortsatt fsx, men med mer tilgjengelig vas. Fortsatt vil vi slite med gammel teknologi, som gjør at ting som er moderne og bra laget idag, som vann og skyer, vil få selv den tøffeste pc til å knele..

Egentlig ganske fasinerende hvor forskjellig vi tolker informasjonene fra Dovetail Games. Jeg (vi flysimmere) er ikke målgruppen til Lockheed Martin - og dermed blir P3D-brukerne en liten minoritet i den store sammenhengen.

 

Flysimulatormiljøet trenger friskt blod. Her feilberegnet MS Flight sitt publikum. Et publikum som på sin side ikke forstod potensialet til MS Flight - som faktisk var helt gratis - og hadde en "gaming-preget" presentasjon av flysimulering, der den typiske "gameren" ble guidet gjennom forskjellige oppgaver (fly gjennom ringer osv.). Et tappert forsøk på å få unge "gamere" interessert i flysimulering (Free flight for eksperten). "Gamlekara" kunne jo bare hoppet over alt dette såkalte "gaming-tullet" - men i stedet rev de seg i håret og ble visst svært så fornærmet.

 

Dovetail Games har derfor valgt en annen strategi: Delt simulatoren i 2 virkeområder.

 

1.) DTG Flight School (jfr. MS Flight "gaming-preget" presentasjon av flysimulering). "Gamlekara" er IKKE målgruppen til DTG Flight School. Og derfor trenger ikke ekspertene rive seg i håret denne gangen over "game"- lignende forsøk på å få nytt blod inn i flysimulatormiljøet.

 

2.) Dovetail Games Flight Simulator - der utgangspunktet for denne nye (eller oppgraderte) flysimulatoren er FSX:SE - og målgruppen er den etablerte flysimmeren. Det synest jeg totalt sett er positivt. Nytt men samtidig gjenkjennelig og gjennomarbeidet over lang tid. Et konsept vi vet fungerer!

 

Det er åpenbart at  DTG Flight Simulator rett fra fødestuen ikke vil kunne sammenlignes med f.eks P3D inkludert det beste av addons. Det ville av åpenbare grunner vært helt urealistisk både med tanke på tid og penger. Dovetail skriver jo selv (min utheving) :

This not just a new sim but rather this is a new platform. It will take time for the infrastructure around it to slot into place. At the moment we are focused on building the best possible simulator we can. We want to get the fundamentals right, if we don't do that there will be nothing to develop for full stop.

Ja, det viktigste nå - er at DTG Flight Simulator blir et solid fundament til å bygge videre på - som bla. John Venema (Orbx) lenge har ønsket. Han skriver (min utheving):

Backward compatibility is neither assured or announced by DTG nor desired by Orbx; we WANT it to be broken so we can start to exploit new technology, finally. It's been too long since we began hacking an old 2006 engine.

Påstanden om at Dovetail - "slett ikke har forbedret en skit. Det er fortsatt fsx, men med mer tilgjengelig vas" - har jeg ingen forståelse for. Jeg er faktisk positivt overrasket over den forbedringen Dovetail har fått til med FSX:SE. P3D har ingen framtid for den store massen. Addon-utviklerene (DLC) vil først og fremst gå etter massen (pengene). Dovetail har over lengre tid fått testet dette med FSX:SE. Dette blir bra for flysimulatormiljøet.

 

Å få mulighet mot slutten av året til å oppgradere fra FSX/FSX:SE/P3D hilses velkommen. Tiden er overmoden!!!  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Neppe. Skal jeg bytte simulator, vil jeg ha mer enn et tweaket Cessna panel som sklir langs en vektor.

:P;)

 

Dovetail (min utheving):

we are not aiming to try and be all things to all people at launch in terms of the content. instead we want to make sure that the platform as a whole is stable and provides the necessary functionality for both third parties and ourselves to build upon in the future.

8)

 

Our goal is not to make another flight sim game but rather to create a brand new platform that allows for continued development and growth for many years to come.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Holder meg til P3D v3 her i gården. Ikke for å være negativ, men når man ser hva Dovetail har gjort med Trainsim så er jeg veldig skeptisk. Iallfall inntil det motsatte er bevist :P

 

Enig i at nå må Dovetail først bestå eksamen. Jeg har ikke noe erfaring med noen av deres produkter som Trainsim - og er derfor inntil videre lykkelig uvitende.  :)

 

For å sitere Dovetail på at de kanskje har lært ett og annet gjennom årene:

There is now over 150 of us spread over two studios!

We have been specialists within the simulation genre for almost a decade now and our flight development team is made of up of a range of experienced developers from across the games industry.  Combined with the lessons we have learned from working with both the FSX: SE and the wider aviation community, we feel that we are ideally suited to bring a new flight simulator to would-be simmers of ages.

 

The development team is currently made up of around 20 people who work on the project full time. Other people from the studio also work on certain sections as need be. For example model makers, gameplay designers, sound engineers and so forth. We are also working with a host of external developers and aviation experts. Generally speaking the team is broken in to smaller specialised areas, for example one set of people are working on the core game engine code while others are working on the building aircraft.

 

we intend to work closely with developers to ensure that they have all the tools and options that they need.

 

We are not a studio that fancied having a go at making a simulator, we are simulation studio. Simulation is all we do because that is what we are passionate about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trainsim har jeg erfaring med.Full av bugs enkelte ganger som aldri blir rettet på  :(

Har Steam på min bärbare og skal jeg bruke noe på en annen sim så er det ett helsikes styr med konto hver gang.Trainsim passer å kjöre på min bärbare,men Cliffs of Dover går ikke på den så derfor står man med kjöp som aldri blir brukt.Hater alt som kommer ut via Steam. :'(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Da får vi håpe at det ikke er de samme Trainsim-utviklerene som nå utvikler flysimulatoren.  ???

 

Og som nevnt har jeg et håp om at de har lært ett og annet fra bug-fiksingen av FSX. Jeg erfarer at Dovetail FSX:SE faktisk er blitt vesentlig bedre enn FSX. Kanskje FSX:SE passer bedre til akkurat min Pc?

P3D oppleves foreløpig noe bedre på grafikk. Understreker: Foreløpig!!

 

Rob (PMDG):

I have long said that Microsoft leaving this genre was going to be the best thing that could possibly happen to us in terms of new technology- and with the advent of Prepar3D beginning to mature and Dovetail beginning to push off in the direction of building a new platform, I think we are in for a fantastic decade ahead.

 

At PMDG our money is firmly on Dovetail Games for the simming side and Prepar3D for the enterprise side of our business.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Så kom omsider bekreftelsen:

 

As promised, finally...

 

Following the completion of long term discussions, Dovetail Games is pleased to announce we will be partnering with Orbx Simulation Systems in order to bring key aspects of their technology to Flight School and Flight Simulator, both scheduled for release this year.

 

Orbx Simulation Systems has dominated the flight simulation scenery space since CEO John Venema founded the company in 2006.

 

"We are thrilled to partner with Dovetail Games as they usher in a new era of 64-bit simulators built on robust technology that we have a decade of experience in developing for", says John Venema, CEO of Orbx Simulation Systems. "We've developed a solid working relationship with the Dovetail team and we're confident that our terrain will look absolutely stunning in their enhanced 3D engine and provide a level of immersion unlike anything experienced before. We look forward to a long a productive partnership."

 

“We are incredibly excited about working with Orbx on Flight School and Dovetail Games Flight Simulator”, says Stephen Hood, Creative Director at Dovetail games. “Orbx represents the pinnacle of what can be achieved in terms of in-game scenery, so collaborating with them on these projects was the obvious choice for us. We are deeply committed to partnering with both new and existing developers and content creators moving forwards to create the best possible combination of technologies to power our simulators – this is only the beginning”

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vel det er teknisk sett 60gb med flysim. de kunne vel integrert denne med neste spill.

 

men står nok over forhåndsbestille.

"Pre-order before 25th April to receive the Diamond DA42"

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Two high performance training aircraft: Piper PA-18 Super Cub and Piper PA-28 Cherokee

 

Ikke ofte de ordene blir brukt i samme setning. Får håpe at dette ikke blir en "high performance" flysimulator.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Må si at denne simmen minner veldig om Microsofts Flight, en sånn arcade lignende sim.

 

Får håpe att tanken ikke er som med Train Simulator.Det kommer en ny utgave for hvert år,uten att der egentlig har skjedd noe nytt.Ikke annet enn at det er nytt årstall på simmen for å lure intetanende nye til å handle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Husk at dette er en "flight school" og ikke en komplett simulator som P3D eller FSX og vil ha svært begrenset addon muligheter og funksjoner. Den fulle nye simulatoren fra Dovetail kommer i løpet av Q4 i år.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Må si at denne simmen minner veldig om Microsofts Flight, en sånn arcade lignende sim. Men vi får håpe på at det blir et steg opp fra dagens simmer :P

 

Syntes ikke Flight fortjente ikke den skjebnen den fikk. Kunne blitt veldig bra med pen DX10 grafikk og finfin flysimulering.

Men halvferdige fly (hvem pokker flyr uten panel!?), begrensede sceneryområder og generelt mer lukket kode ødela nok mest.

 

Skulle egentlig gjerne sett at denne nye var en videreutvikling av Flight, men kanskje vi da hadde mistet muligheten for å fly på hele kloden, og evt. mer lukket i forhold til 3-part og freeware. Så da hadde det jo blitt samme tabbe på nytt.

 

Tiden vil vise, det blir spennende å se hva som dukker opp i neste måned. Enig med D'Andre på ADX, det er litt rart at det fremdeles bare foreligger 5 screenshots, og én video som ikke engang en in-sim opptak.

 

Uansett - en investering på kr. 100,- for preorder er ikke mye. Blir da bare ca. en krone og femti øre per bit :)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...